Update on Chance and Blaze post-fight

Since posting about the fight with Chance and Blaze and how they are being cautious with each other, they seem to be reconciling.  They are improving with each other every day.  They are hanging out in the same rooms and standing close for treats.  It has been a good week after the hard dog fight they had.  We are so happy.  

Here's something has given me something to chew on:  While talking to the vet about the fight, how they didn't stop, the length of it and how I had to really scream to get their attention; she said that Chance and Blaze could be responding to my screaming as if I was saying it was wrong for them to be together.  I've been pondering the information this evening and I can see that in the dogs actions that the vet could be right.  

For example:  I was eating a carrot.  Both dogs in front of me.  But after giving Blaze a bite, she left, letting Chance get the rest of the treat.  Blaze. Never. Leaves. If Food Is Present.  Never.  

So maybe what our vet said was true.  And that it is up to me to bring them together and let them know it is OK for them to be together.  

Interesting, huh?

Any thoughts?

About a week before Thanksgiving...

In almost eleven years I can probably count on one hand or so how many times Chance and Blaze have ever gotten into a fight.  And it is almost always over food.  But something about this time was different.  Because they didn't stop fighting when I called their names, like they have before.  It was their longest fight they have ever had.  Almost three times as long than any time in the past.  To say they were shook up over it and were both leery with each other, is an understatement.

Chance scratched the white of Blaze's eye.  It was swollen and red and took two days to heal itself.   That was the worst of the physical damage.  But the emotional toll it took, was far beyond the damage of Blaze's eye.

They have kind of stayed away from each other for those two days and were both over respectful with each other.  It scared me a little.  What a difference those extra seconds made for them during that fight.  And to be fair it was kind of my fault.  They were all hyped up for their dinner, everyone was going crazy and then bam!  Suddenly Chance and Blaze were at each other's faces.

By the end of day 3 they were starting to come around to each other, just slightly.  Yet, here at day 11 since the fight, both are still acting scared of the other.

So I don't know what happened differently, other than the fight going on longer than normal, but it's a little scary watching them together.  There's no aggression of any kind, they just seem so cautious with each other and want to stay out of the other's way.

I feel like all the trust that was between them has been shattered in a way I can't understand or make better.  I don't know that there is anything I can do to "fix it" and that it will take Chance and Blaze to heal themselves and each other.  It is going to take time.  I just hope it repairable.  They have always been pretty good together and are fairly close, though not physically, but mentally.  I call them the Dynamic Duo.  It is why they made such good sled dogs, because they are quite the team and work together like a couple of Powerhouses.  There is no doubt that one always knows what the other is thinking, at all times.  So must have come as quite a shock to them when they were battling it out.  An accidental reaction that turned completely out of control. 

And if they were unprepared, image how I felt.  Totally out of character for both of them.  I would have not been able to predict that was going to happen, even after all my reviewing of the situation.  I don't think it was the fight itself, but the length of time and not being able to stop them that scared me.  That was not like either of them at all. 

So we'll be keeping an eye on them and saying some prayers.  And hopefully they will be able to come back together to be that wonderful team I love.  The Dynamic Duo. 

the Singing Duo

Close Encounter of the Dog Kind

For those of you new to the 24 Paws of Love we have four dogs that are made up into two packs each in pairs. They each their own yards and their own sides of the house, with only a door between them.  We call this the separation door, which we must always keep shut because the pairs don't get along with each other.  We've had a handful of fights caused by our own carelessness of not making sure the door is shut all the way when going back and forth between the packs.  

This was one of those times... 

Zappa was barking and pawed at the door that separates the two packs.  Chance headed towards the door from the other side.  I noticed that Zappa's bark was coming through rather clear.  As I ran to the door, Zappa and Chance were slowly backing up away from the door.  It had been pushed about a foot open.  I slammed it shut, everyone barking in fear of what could have happened.  So close.  So very close.

Although I was impressed that both Zappa and Chance backed away at the same time.  Neither really wanted a confrontation.  And since those two have never fought when faced with each other they had no intentions of doing so now.  Thank goodness Fiona was behind Zappa and a little slower to the action, or she would have burst through and started a fight.  

Whew!

Talk about being grateful!!

Somebody up there loves us

.

So is the life of living with two packs of dogs.

Love still found a way

As crazy as it might sound, I'm really OK with the dogs being separated.  Well, most of the time.  Of course it would be great if they could all be together, but as it stands now, it isn't possible.

It isn't the separation that bothers me, it is the aggression.  Eight years of Brut was enough for me to throw in the towel.  I used to think I wanted to work with aggressive dogs, but all those years of Brut steadily changed my mind.  It's another reason the separation doesn't bother me because I still get to keep all our dogs despite the fact that they can be aggressive and reactive with each other.  I still see it as a win-win.

There is also a real peace of mind.  It would've killed to have to give up any one them because they couldn't be together.  I still believe this is a viable solution and in many ways is kind of cool, like living in two different worlds.  There is also a little more personal time when you're only with two dogs at a time.  It has made for more quality time for everyone even though it is split between the two packs.

Ya know, we haven't had a fight in this house in three years and Brut has only been gone for two.  Pretty amazing.  The only reason this last one happened with Fiona and Blaze was because the separation door didn't shut all the way.  We were careless and in a rush and didn't notice it didn't shut. We are taking care of the door and being more aware whether it closes all the way or not.  Just another reminder of how our dogs are animals, with instincts that they act upon, whether we understand it or not.

So this isn't a bad deal.  Having four dogs divided in twos.  And it is hardly the end of the world because they are still "together" here with us and that makes the whole separation worth it.

If you really, really want something, love will find a way.

STEP 1 of INTEGRATING THE TWO PACKS-Diffuse the Tension!

Please forgive my silence as I have been grieving again.  Two years ago in the spring we saw the first signs of Brut's tumor on his spleen.  Now that can only be seen in retrospect and I am remembering my dear boy and Silver.   I miss them so much.  Some days are harder than others.

With that said, their spirits haven't left me and Silver in particular guided me through this next experience.  The beginning of the integration of our two packs starts with:

  

Diffusing the tension!

Two packs of dogs, each with their own side of the house and a door that separates them. The boys, Zappa and Chance only fight/talk with each other, while the girls, Fiona and Blaze keep to each other as well. Most of the time Zappa is the instigator, but Chance has gotten many digs in as well. 

This door is the focal point for the two packs.  Most of the time they "talk" to each other, but there are other times when there are "fights."  Growling, snarling and just being nasty to each other at the door.   And mealtime was the worst!  I used to have their dinners prepared so there was no time but to bark and be happy about food.  As they've aged I've added to their menus, which takes more time which in turn has grown into an all out riot while preparing their food!

I have never known how to stop this behavior.   I could never figure out how to be on both sides of the door.  

The light bulb.... I put Chance and Blaze in their room and Zappa and Fiona in theirs and then I got their food ready.  Cutting the tension in half, theirs and mine.  They ate a little slower and I notice a huge differences in their demeanor.  All that pent up anxiety, fear and anger was diffused.  Finally!

I finally had made a breakthrough.

It was a step in the right direction.

I hadn't realize until that first time of putting them in their rooms, just how much tension there really was and the impact it was having them.  This is a sort a new thing with the food since Brut and Silver died, with each death it increased.  It's not like I am oblivious to the strain and tension between them, their behavior at the door has been going on since Chance and Blaze first moved back with us, I just hadn't found a solution.  It's not in any book I know of, so we just keep plugging along until the next light bulb goes off.

I'll tell you more about the next step of diffusing the situation in my next post and I will try to have some video too!  

Why a calm Brut is not always a good thing

I'm so tired of dealing with Brut's aggression.  It is ugly, vile and violent.  The worst part about it is the longer it lays dormant, when it does rear its ugly head it is worse than in the beginning.  It is like a disease that progresses even when there are no signs or symptoms while the venom gets stronger and stronger.

For the most part Brut is a happy-go-lucky dog, believe it or not.  Moody at times but all in all there have been long strectches without any aggressive behavior.  And it seems this is where the killer lies, in wait, until all the brewings coming together when he becomes a stealth bomber, completely catching me off guard.  Brut goes for so long being calm and relaxed and happy that I drop my guard, little by little with him.  A leathal combination.  He gets bolder in his attacks and because they happen so quickly, I am missing the cues to intervene and cut off his course.

Like when this happened the other night:

Brut was alone in the living room, the rest of the Back Dogs were in the bedroom, so Brut could have some alone time with us.

I was sitting at the laptop on the couch, when I see Brut make a mad swoop in front me just as I noticed Boxer the cat come up beside me and Brut started to snarl.  It all happened very swiftly.  It didn't give me any time to react instead I was pretty freaked out and froze.  I was afraid to move, in case Brut would react.

Brut was being possessive of me and by me not responding I was telling him that his behavior was acceptable and that he had my permission to get rid of the intruder.

So he did.  He grabbed Boxer's head then immediately let go when I told him NO!

Tell you what, it was scary.

And this all happened in a matter of seconds.  There was very little I could do.

Boxer is OK. (thank God) Not a scratch on him, but he doesn't help the situation out very much either.  He will sit and confront Brut with no fear or brains (I swear) until Brut attacks.  Boxer won't run either, he will just join Brut for the staring showdown.  

I don't know what it is with all this strong willed blood in this house and the relentless stubborness to stand their ground.

I went over the incident over and over in my head and really I'm not sure there was anything I could have done different except maybe push Boxer away.  Since he was the irritant under Brut's collar, but since I froze, I don't know that I could have even did that.  The whole thing was so sudden and scary that I don't think I would have had time to do anything differently in that state of mind.  All I can do now is take a relaxed breath that no one was hurt and be prepared for the next time.

What about you?
Have you had any situations like this with other animals in your house?  How did you react?  Was your reaction positive or negative to the situation?  What would you do different?

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pee.s. there is finally an update to the cat's blog 

Do You Remember Us?

Brut Self-Love

I've needed dogs all my life, they were my mentors on love, but I never needed I dog as badly as I needed Brut.  He's been teaching me the hardest lesson I've ever had to learn and one that only he could teach.  Self-love.

I've been in a downward spiral of self hate for most of my life and living thru the memories of my childhood abuse (PTSD) only made things worse.

I think it is why I related with and loathe Brut's aggression.  It made me face myself and that was the last thing I knew how to do.

There was a part of me that loved his freedom and power to express himself.  Nobody walks all over Brut.  I struggled to reclaim that power in my own life.  To have the confidence and strength that would stop myself from my own self beatings.

And I hated Brut too for his aggression and the violence and cruelty it portrayed.  It became a cycle that I couldn't see.

I fought hard for my heart dog.  Even before I knew a word that described him.  Little did I know that every time I faced Brut, I faced myself.

Brut's aggression would go from 0 to 60 and back in a matter of breaths.  I took a little longer on my end of forgiveness.  

No matter if it was my fault or his for a fight, eventually I came around to forgiving him and most

important, I continued to love him.  And every time I loved him, a little piece of me was loved.

This awful, horrible being I grew up thinking I am, was chipping away when I was confronted with Brut and his aggression.  For I already knew the beautiful being Brut was. I was shocked to discover much later he was thinking the same thing about me.

It has taken many years of dog's unconditional love that kept me believing in love at all. It was Brut that started breaking down that self prison with every growl, snarl, and gnashing of his teeth to wake this girl up and set her free.

   

Job of an aggressive dog Mom is never done

I'd just got done walking Blaze and Chance on separate walks, I let the Back Dogs outside.  They were all pretty hyped up thinking they were next, especially Brut, he'll do anything to go on a walk.  Brut,  Silver and Zappa were on the back deck, right in front of the sliding glass door.  There was potential of tension with the boys being so frantic and close to each other, but I blew it off.  Things were going so well and Zappa tends to take pretty good care of himself when it comes to Brut.

I had just opened the freeze for some ice, when I heard that all too familiar sound of fighting dogs.  I ran from the kitchen through the door that separtates the two packs and saw Brut and Zappa standing on hind legs leaning against the other glaring and growling at each other.  I had no idea what to do next.  Any move I was to make was going to set Brut off.  So I watched and waited thinking maybe, just maybe one of them would concede.  Not likely but they were not fighting at this moment and I thought they might just resolve it on their own.

Then just as quickly the fight started again.  I banged on the glass door and they quickly broke up.  Zappa was hurt, limping and whimpering.  I took care of him first with some antibiotic cream and gave him a boo-boo sock to wear as he slowly began to calm down.

I was angry that Zappa was hurt.  Which meant I was angry at Brut.  So I sort of ignored him the rest of the day.  He tried to be all lovely dovey with me, but I was quite firm with him.  Later in the evening he tried to intimate Zappa and strut around like he was top dog.  I sent him to his room.

It wasn't until bedtime when he laid at my feet and I began to tell him I was angry with him that it really hit me why I was angry.  One, because he hurt Zappa and two because it was more my fault than Brut's.  I saw the recipe for a fight in the making and I knew Brut has been a bit testy lately and I made the mistake of overlooking both those factors.  And I confessed my part to Brut.  And while we had a quick make up session, I'm still not thoroughly settled.  A dog fight is still hard for me to digest very easily.

No worries though, Brut and I will probably have a good heart to heart talk about it and forgive each other.  This is just another way to keep me on my toes and not let my guard down so much.  Fights used  to be the end of the world feeling and it would take me days to make peace with Brut.  Now they so rarely happen anymore it is just a good reminder that my job as a dog mom is never done.

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About yesterday's Black/White Photo, you all guessed Chance and you were all right!   

Back Dog/Front Dog Observations

For new readers we have two packs of dogs, the Front pack and the Back pack.  The Front Dogs consist of Chance and Blaze.  The Back Dogs are Brut, Silver, Fiona and Zappa.  We separated them when Chance and Blaze were returned to us (two pups from Brut and  Silver's litter) as the Back Dogs wouldn't accept them into their pack.  You can read more on the Two Packs HERE.

I had a little incident with Brut.  It was totally my fault and don't worry, nobody even made contact with each other.  It was over food (of course) and I watched how leery Brut got when I got the treats out.  He became so edgy and ready to strike which got me thinking later how the Front Dogs (Chance and Blaze) give me an opportunity to see what life is like without a dominant leader hovering over their every presence.  While there is only two of them, male and female, they are the leaders of their pack I don't know how they would act with a third or fourth dog 'underneath' them.

 

Between the Front Dogs there is only a slice of food aggression.  It does happen on occasion that there is a fight, but it is very rare.  Maybe once a year.  Chance has been known to push Blaze's buttons many a time during play and again on a rare occasion he pushes too far. 

Since they are only two dogs and only have each other, I really wonder how they would act with another dog added to their pack once they got past the accepting stage.  I don't know.  Hard to answer. 

Because one thing the Front Dogs don't have is Brut.  They don't have him controlling them to keep in his line.  Chance and Blaze don't have to worry or watch every step they make, like the Back Dogs.  The Front Dogs are constantly able to come and go with each other, with only each other to answer to.  They essentially have more freedom and less demand, which I think gives them their playfulness with each other.  Chance and Blaze are nothing short of playing chase games and bantering with each other.  While the Back Dogs under Brut's guise are more conservative and reserved.  It is like all the stars have to be aligned to have a game of chase.  Or maybe they have just grown out of it.  Or maybe there is something else I don't know going on.  Since I never had more than three dogs at a time, I've never experienced such a degree of pack mentality like I do with the Back Dogs.  It blows my mind sometimes how the Back Dogs can be so relaxed just exploring the backyard or sit and listening to the sounds.  There is an air of experience among them and in many ways they have outgrown the Front Dogs mentally.  It's something I can't really explain, there's just something different that is collective as they have learned to work together under Brut's throne.  Like pulling all the directions of the wind together and upwards.  Powerful.

One of the best things that happened was when the tarps blew down on the double fence that was blocking the two sets of dogs.  My biggest concern was when Blaze went into heat this past summer.  I was afraid there would be more fighting between the boys and there wasn't.  In fact it went almost unnoticed.  Which has help to create a bond between the two packs on a more physical level, seeing each other and interacting together.  When Chance and Blaze were playing one time in front of the fence, I saw Fiona do a playbow to them!  It was so cool.  This past year there has been less threatening barks and more of excitement, play and curiosity.  They have never howled outside, but it would be such a joy to see if that ever happened.

Slowly we are moving along and moving together.  And while I didn't plan it that way, nor did I think we were going to move along so slowly, I wouldn't have it any other way.  Each step is a step closer to something I'm still not sure will ever really happen.  Merging the two packs.  And even as I say that, I still see signs of hope that it will.  One paw at time, things will happen in their own time the way they were meant to be.  And that is just right with me.

Brut's Talking Eyes

I find it simply amazing when I’m communicating with the dogs and we are reaching each other in a language that everyone can understand.

Those times when you find that you are actually TALKING to each other.

It still blows my mind.

Like the other day hubby had just gotten home and became the center of jealousy between Brut and Zappa.  And just as Brut started to lower his head and ears, I said real quietly, “eh-huh,” and he looked at me.  Inside that quick glance I read a fountain of information, but mostly it said, “I really want to.  But I respect you.”

I swear he has the eyes of a tiger.  I always feel like I’m dealing with a wild animal when he’s in the attack mode.  Or when he throwing around his “leave me alone” attitude.

And there is nothing quite like reaching him AND getting a positive and honest response when he’s in that mode out of the respect we have for each other.

We have these kind of discussions all of the time, but it’s the times when I really need him to hear me and he listens by returning the favor that are the most precious.

Those are the times when we really see the truth in each other’s eyes   Brut’s communicative eyes have a way of keeping a hold on me.  When he is truly who he is.

And it reminds me of a Disney movie or a storybook when the dog “talks” with their body and the child knows what they are saying.  I swear sometimes I’m living a dream.  Worth every ounce of pain, blood and tears that I went through with Brut to get here.

What an awesome boy! My Brut!

I disagree...

about the aggressiveness in a Alpha Rollover.   Now before you all start throwing darts at me or click off in disgust give me a minute to explain myself.

It is a natural response and reaction for dogs to use this on one another.  I've never seen a dog do it with an aggressive intent.  Not even my own dogs.  In fact I have only seen it done during playing and rough housing.

That's one of the main reasons I like it, because it is part of their language and they easily understand it.

I don't believe in the alpha rollover should be used as part of every day training.  I rarely use it but I believe it can be used as an effect tool during a dog fight.

Positive reinforcement isn't going to break up a fight.  But an alpha rollover is like a kill switch.

I've been through enough dog fights with my own dogs over the years that a calm steady hand with only pressure of my two fingers squeezing just above the shoulder blades can bring a fight to halt instantly.  I don't push or shove the dog to ground, I let him submit on his own.

And some of you might think YEARS of DOG FIGHTS using the ALPHA ROLLOVER???  Well no wonder you have so many fights, you are encouraging aggression.

If that were true, I'd have dog fights every day, instead of months and months of remissions.

I have one aggressive dog, that I manage every day with prevention and none of it involves an alpha rollover.  But since I can't change Brut's entire nature or be with him constantly or I don't move as quickly when an attack is imminent, fights do happen. At this moment I can't think of the last one that happened.  And I don't believe using the alpha rollover on such rare occasions creates a more aggressive dog.  In fact, in the case of Brut he has become less aggressive with his pack mates as time goes on.  Do I think that is because of using alpha rollovers?  No.  They are a last resort in an out of control situation that I only reserve for that purpose and even then I don't always use it.

I know many don't agree with it regardless of what I share from my experience.  The alpha rollover has been deemed an aggressive technique.  Since all I can share is what has worked for me, my experience with the technique and hope I don't lose all my readers who have made it this far through the post, all I'm saying that in some contexts I find the technique appropriate.

What do you think about the Alpha Rollover tool?  Do you have thoughts one way or the other?  Have you ever used it or would you never use it?