Chance and Zappa Socialize-2nd meeting!

Watch here or on YouTube

So the video may not seem like much, but if you've been a long time reader you know how exciting this is.  It has been a long time coming to try and blend the two dog packs.  Here is our first meeting.  They were pretty scared that first time, but were relaxed and happy the second time.   

As you might have noticed I'm not spending a lot of time on Zappa's entrance, just trying to keep him from being out of control.  I just want to get to the 'meeting' between the two of them and I'll work backwards from there.  

Zappa being Zappa is the mouthy one of the two.  He did pretty good for the most part.  The fact that nobody is holding the leashes while Chance and Zappa 'hang out' helps to keep any emotions that may be coming down the leash and making them more reactive.  

I actually can't believe how much they calmed down once they found they couldn't get to each other.  Just like that their squabble was over.  

Other than just getting them together, I'm trying to show them that I do not favor one over the other and that they are equal to me.  My reasons for eating and sharing the pear with both of them.  

I think I'm on to something.  :)

Now where to take it from here.....hmmm

We are Socializing!

No, no, not us, the 24 Paws of Love!  We have met a friend who walks her year and a half old pup, Callie, and is willing to brave the 24 Paws of Love, while we walk on the other side of the road.

The first couple of walks I took Fiona as she is the least reactive and the most tolerable with dogs.  Callie was pretty excited to see us.  She loves other dogs.  Fiona didn't pay any attention to her.

So we get about half way around the block and we are on a two track path.  Dogs were walking closer at the point.  Still all is good.

And I'm like, you want to do what?? Sniff me?? I don't think so! 

After the last turn, My friend and I are talking while Fiona and Callie were practically side by side. Next thing we know Callie went to sniff Fiona's nose and Fiona turned and snapped at her muzzle.  I said she was tolerable and her hips were probably sore after such a long walk.  I felt a little bad.  But it was just a warning from Fiona to give her some room.

We went another time with Fiona, on a shorter route and without incident.  So last night I tried Zappa.

Meeting up with my friend and Callie, Zappa went crazy, so did Callie.  Through the first part of the walk Zappa gave warning barks mixed in with playful ones, lunged, jumped on his hind legs, then he'd walk for a while and start acting out again.  Callie, on the other hand was completely ignoring Zappa.  My friend commented that Zappa's expression was a happy one, when we both came to conclusion Zappa didn't know what to do.  He was trying to get a reaction out of Callie and she was indifferent to him.

It took about half of the walk for Zappa to settle down and finally relax into an easy gait and just enjoy the walk.  It was about then his curiosity was getting the better of him and he wonder who this foxy little girl dog was...he kept focused on her for the rest of the walk.  We did no intros, maybe next time when he feels a little more comfortable to start.  I remember this was how we introduce Zappa to Blaze.  Little by little until I felt comfortable they could make contact.

It is a good start leading us into our next frontier.  Stay tuned!  We may surprise you yet!  :)

And I hope to have some pics of our walks together and cute little Callie!

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Check out our article in PetUpon emagazine, "Meet the two packs"              

Reflecting Comments

Thanks so much for all the comments on our post about Brut and our run in with a loose dog.  Pamela from Something Wagging this Way Comes, brought a point that I hadn't considered.  I was under the assumption by the dogs friendly attitude and wanting to meet and greet with Brut, that she must have been socialized or even over socialized.  She was very unsure how to read Brut's signals and kept running back and forth.

Which brings me to KB's comment from Romping and Rolling in the Rockies.  She wondered if Brut was giving mixed signals from experience with her fearful dog Shyla.  And I would have to agree with her as well.  When I analyze Brut's behavior around other dogs, he has been inviting at first until the dog starts getting close.  Then his fear kicks in and then he reacts.  He is terrified of other dogs, but I hadn't put two and two together because in the moment when another dog coming at him his fear kicks in as aggression and he is going to attack.

If I flipped that around in my mind and deal with the fear first, I might be able to help turn him around.  (Not in a situation when a loose dog is running in his face), but when we take our walks and run into safe dogs on leashes or behind fences.

And I agree with Elka from Elka's Almanac that it is very frustrating and that we have had our share of unfriendly dogs that have run up loose to us as well without incident.  But it took a whole lot of strength on my part trying to hold Brut back while blocking other dog.

Which brings us to the never ending fight of loose dogs and excellent recall.  It took several attempts for this dog's owner to get a hold of this dog and she made no effort to actually grab the away from the situation.  She just kept calling the dog's name over and over until eventually the dog came.  I also agree with White Dog Army, who stated no dog should be left loose without having absolute recall.

I've run into this situation time and time again.   In our neighborhood, at the park, even running around downtown loose dogs ahead of the owner whom can't even see his dogs and then they run into Brut and I and I am left with Brut facing a dog or two who are under no control.  And then I've got a situation until the owner catches up.  People simply forget that not all dogs are friendly.

It's the reason I take the utmost caution and preventive maintenance that it takes for the safety of Brut and other dogs.  I've been giving him treats walking by houses with dogs whether they are out or not, passing people walking or on bikes so that he starts to associate some good things when we are out.

Sometimes I just turn around.  If I'm not up to it or don't feel very calm I turn the other way when someone/dog is coming.  And I found if Brut keeps moving past person/dog rather than stop and wait for them to go by, he does much better.

One interesting point I'd like to add, when this incident happened with the dog running up to Brut, once the lady had her dog and after I was situated, I tried giving Brut a treat.  He was pretty roused up by then, BUT he did snap at the treat, which I took as an excellent sign that he was still with me.  He wasn't so far gone nor as focused on the dog.  And I thought THAT was great progress! 

Can a dog be too socialized?

 Where did she go?

Brut and I were on a walk and had a loose dog run over to us.  Brut immediately begins to lunge towards the medium size poodle mix as she came close to his face.  I tried to shoo her away with my foot while holding Brut back, who continued to lunge and pull forward at the little dog.  But she kept coming back.  She would run a space away, then turn around and come back towards us, still getting as close as she could.  She did this 3 or 4 times before the owner finally caught up to her and got her attention and was able to get a hold of her.  On a tight lead, while the owner held her dog by the collar, Brut and I were finally able to pass.

I was stunned and a bit flabbergasted.  I can not tell you how many times this has happened with Brut and me, of dogs running to get in his face, friend or foe.  It is as if they do not heed any warning signs Brut shoots out at all.  Which got me to thinking that what is going on with these dogs that they are willing to invade Brut's territory when he's made his indications known, with all the body language possible.  He wants to attack these dogs and they continue to come up to him either to confront or make friends.(?)

I don't know.  I don't understand it.  Are these friendly dogs so condition to friendly, socialized dogs they have been brainwashed and don't know a threat or a warning from another dog???

Is it a case of "all they know?"  Is it a socialized dog that is exposed to socialized dogs only knows the that all dogs are friendly?  Or an aggressive dog thinks all dogs are a threat and that's all he knows?

Because I'm really confused.  In the real world there are both.  Shouldn't our dogs be exposed to both if this is the case?

It raises many questions, I think, because wouldn't our dogs be a little safer with each other if they knew the warning signs from another dog and they could work it out?

Has anyone ever experience any thing like this with your reactive/aggressive dog?  What do you think the cause is?  What do you think should be done?  How have you handle the situation?

Please share.